Curse

Fril Estelin · Apr 01, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Reading this thread, I understand why PvP is more difficult than PvE. I'll keep pointing to the same article, again and again:
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cf...RE=1659&bhjs=0

When the PvP game is finished, you can go back to your normal lives.

erk · Apr 01, 2008, 09:19 PM // 21:19

So Andrew's work load is increasing, taking more time away from PvP activities is that how it seems?

l Teh Mighty Warrior l · Apr 01, 2008, 10:58 PM // 22:58

I don't even bother posting here anymore with anything that conflicts with what is "supposed" to be said. This will get deleted instantly, but thank god gaile is gone, she didn't do shit for pvp, hope the door hits her on the way out.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Apr 02, 2008, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Personally I thought she was terrible, but I didn't really care that she was leaving because I feel like Gaile leaving has no effect on PvP unless Andrew steps into the Pve CR spot and we get someone who plays the game at a decent level.

C2K · Apr 02, 2008, 04:53 AM // 04:53

I do hope we get someone that cares about PvP to get in the CR position. PvP needs more support. HB needs a revamp. HA could use a map change up. GvG is almost there(I think GvG was actually in a decent place this past month, it was the MAT bugs that generated the most hatred and problems). Arenas are fine and AB will always suck, so no changes needed there.

On another note, even though this is interweb, I don't think bashing Gaile would help anyone in the long term. She is only changing positions, not leaving. I mean, what if you have to write a support ticket for some reason? Might as well uninstall the game if you ever get in that boat then.

tbh, I'm more interested in what Izzy is going to do with the next skill update.

Van Goghs Ear · Apr 02, 2008, 05:17 AM // 05:17

I don't hate her, I'm just totally indifferent to her which pretty much sums up her impact on the pvp aspect of the game.

in response to the whole pvp being like a 'second' job...it's whatever you make of it. I don't know a lot of pve'ers that don't grind and farm. I'm not saying there aren't pvp'ers who don't grind and farm title, but I would have to say that pve still has the largest grind/farm community, which to me feels like a second job.

Having fun competing against others that don't have a fixed skill bar of only 4 skills and act the same way every time you encounter them is just more my alley. What exactly does pve have to offer after you've completed the 3.5 campaigns? This question never seems to get answered logically by pve'ers whenever I pose it.

Anyways, GW in general needs more employees who actually have some sort of grasp on the mechanics of pvp. Had it happened 2 years ago perhaps 99% of the active PvP community wouldn't have moved on to greener pastures.

Riotgear · Apr 02, 2008, 05:32 AM // 05:32

27 of the 56 posts made to this thread so far have been deleted. Another round of this crap and this thread's going to get euthanized since it's obviously fostering some pretty shitty discussion.

If you want to discuss problems with Gaile's approach to community interaction and its implications to PvP, or prospects that her transition presents, then go ahead. Do not flame each other or post incendiary remarks.

If you have an issue with or question about moderation, PM a mod.

urania · Apr 02, 2008, 07:19 AM // 07:19

I vote for Void to replace her B).
The game would be fixed in no time then.

DutchSmurf · Apr 02, 2008, 10:34 AM // 10:34

What people don't seem to get is that you can have 10 CRs that only care about PvP, but that doesn't mean the PvP is going to get fixed any time sooner then with 0 of them. Also, a CR playing PvP at a high level is completely impossible, because they aren't allowed to. As far as I know, top GvG players have been in direct contact with devs since the start of the game, completely ignoring Gaile. Yes, the few times she said something about PvP she was often wrong. She still did a good job with the other 95% of her job, which is more then most people can say.

seut · Apr 02, 2008, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Productivity

As of how long? A year at best, probably closer to six months. That still leaves the better part of two and a half years of complete failure to do anything for the PVP community at her feet.

Always funny to see how selective memory can be... once upon a time there was another CR besides Gaile. Does the name "Alex Weekes" ring a bell?

JR · Apr 02, 2008, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

Always funny to see how selective memory can be... once upon a time there was another CR besides Gaile. Does the name "Alex Weekes" ring a bell?

He was around, yes, but he was also severely limited in terms of what he could actually do for the community. He worked for NCSoft, not ArenaNet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

What people don't seem to get is that you can have 10 CRs that only care about PvP, but that doesn't mean the PvP is going to get fixed any time sooner then with 0 of them.

It should do, if they are actually doing their job, which is to translate feedback to the developers and advocate changes the community wants internally.

seut · Apr 02, 2008, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

He was around, yes, but he was also severely limited in terms of what he could actually do for the community. He worked for NCSoft, not ArenaNet.

I only wanted to point out that things aren't that black and white as people want to believe.
Alex Weekes worked for NCSoft in Brighton (and now works there again for CoX). Having somebody, who is at a distance not directly included in the design process, but having an ear on the pulse of the community is actually a good thing. Being too close and too involved in daily business makes you blind to see real problems. I liked having him on this kind of "observer mode".
And for PvP'ers saying "Gaile did everything PvE'ers wanted".. look at her incomprehension of the needs of players with multiple PvE chars and the problems generated by the character centric grind.

urania · Apr 02, 2008, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

Also, a CR playing PvP at a high level is completely impossible, because they aren't allowed to. As far as I know, top GvG players have been in direct contact with devs since the start of the game, completely ignoring Gaile.

I can understand the reason why such a rule has been imposed, but I am convinced that receiving information on what skills or skill combinations are broken from others ONLY is bad too, if not even worse. I believe that an experienced player that can be trusted should be chosen to take care of the balance, but they would have to coordinate their proposals and thoughts on it with the dervs as well as a selected other group of experienced top players from various other competitive aspects (pve excluded here...) of the game - a few "top", as in regular, experienced and competitive, TA and HA players (and maybe even top HB players lol) just to be able to give the devs a more wholesome picture on what is actually going on with other aspects of the game, because as far as i know, none of the top gvg players, apart from some vD members, even warp to HA or TA, let alone play there *roll eyes*, so their insight often proves unsatisfactory when it comes to those arenas. More often, they dont even have one to start with.

FoxBat · Apr 02, 2008, 01:18 PM // 13:18

You know, I recall seeing ZFQ hawk smash halls for a good while after the MAT.
Also getting pwned by sup and HGH in TA... heck one day every non-RA team had top 100 tags.

Pretty sure they do check out and excel in other PvP forms, just don't hang around enough to take them seriously.

JR · Apr 02, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

I can understand the reason why such a rule has been imposed, but I am convinced that receiving information on what skills or skill combinations are broken from others ONLY is bad too, if not even worse. I believe that an experienced player that can be trusted should be chosen to take care of the balance, but they would have to coordinate their proposals and thoughts on it with the dervs as well as a selected other group of experienced top players from various other competitive aspects (pve excluded here...) of the game - a few "top", as in regular, experienced and competitive, TA and HA players (and maybe even top HB players lol) just to be able to give the devs a more wholesome picture on what is actually going on with other aspects of the game, because as far as i know, none of the top gvg players, apart from some vD members, even warp to HA or TA, let alone play there *roll eyes*, so their insight often proves unsatisfactory when it comes to those arenas. More often, they dont even have one to start with.

Do you often TA/HA on American hours?

Kyp Jade · Apr 02, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

Also, a CR playing PvP at a high level is completely impossible, because they aren't allowed to.

I do remember thinking when they first posted the list of DQ'ed guilds, that it was a bad idea. Being a member of Anet gives no advantage in game. Unless they plan to ban someone midmatch o.O

Since devs dont play top 100 level, or even other arenas with some level of skill, thier views on the game are MUCH different than ours. We actually see and experience what is lame, gay, and broken. They listen to us whine and moan about it, but never really act to fix all the problems. Sure they fix some, but they ignore many others. Thats because they view us as a very very tiny fraction of the community, and dont think that we are at all a representative of other players.

Hopefully the new CR will realize how ridiculous that is and urge the devs to pay much more attention to some of the posts here. Im sorry andrew, but passing along a link to a thread is not the same as carefully explaining to the devs what the problems actually are. Yes they do read them on thier own time, but since they dont play the game at the level we do, they dont understand what we are trying to say. Plus they have to read between all the random crap posts to filter out the good stuff.

Everyone I ever talk to in game has views in line with what is said here on guru. At least the intelligent talk that usually gets posted here. Random casual players that decide to post in here definatly are NOT a representative of the community, but there are a few dozen members, especially most of the mods and older players that are.

Finally, if you expect your pet project GW2 to be successful at all, STOP catering only to the GvG players. The level of handling on the pvp side of this game has been so shit, that I fully expect the game to have huge initial sales, and then die of very very fast, within a year or so. Yes GvG is the 'highest' arena in this game, and should be a balanced game type, but that does not imply that HA, HB, and TA are thrown in the trash bin. Especially when all communities (except TA which is shit because you ignored it) are larger and more active than your GvG playerbase, and just as knowledgeable of game mechanics.

urania · Apr 02, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Do you often TA/HA on American hours?

I used to, especially when i switched servers (before the update where it was possible to change them at will) from eu to us for a few months. thats how i got to know most of the regular players there.

I don't do HA anymore tho, only wanted a sweet little bambi =o)

Divinus Stella · Apr 02, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

I can understand the reason why such a rule has been imposed, but I am convinced that receiving information on what skills or skill combinations are broken from others ONLY is bad too, if not even worse. I believe that an experienced player that can be trusted should be chosen to take care of the balance, but they would have to coordinate their proposals and thoughts on it with the dervs as well as a selected other group of experienced top players from various other competitive aspects (pve excluded here...) of the game - a few "top", as in regular, experienced and competitive, TA and HA players (and maybe even top HB players lol) just to be able to give the devs a more wholesome picture on what is actually going on with other aspects of the game, because as far as i know, none of the top gvg players, apart from some vD members, even warp to HA or TA, let alone play there *roll eyes*, so their insight often proves unsatisfactory when it comes to those arenas. More often, they dont even have one to start with.

The reason most PvP updates are based around GvG is that AB, TA and HB are just joke arenas, nobody takes them seriously enough to base a balance update since most of the problems in those arenas stem from the an incompetent player base.

HA does need changing and often gets left out, what most people see as the problem is the degenerate builds usually involving rangers with melee weapons but there isnt much a skill change can do to those builds, the biggest problem with HA is that there isnt any good players competing there, if you watch the HA observer you will see that most decent guilds that play there will get ganked at any opportunity purely for being high ranked.

Kaon · Apr 02, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

The PR manager doesn't have to pvp at high level. He just needs to have an understanding of the game and communicate properly and regularly with the community. That is all. Gaile didnt have any understanding of pvp, and never said anything productive.

RiKio · Apr 02, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

The new CR manager needs to listen the communitiy, and let the intelligent fraction of players to decide and discuse the changes. Thats all.

Please, no more despotism form Anet. Let us do the things in a democratic way.